bioshockfandomcom-20200223-history
Talk:The Goddamn People
He's been a shop owner how long on the surface? and he thought people would be different? Better would have been him complaining about the 'protection money' that Fontaine was extorting out of all his leased tennants and the one guy whos legs were broken and children threatened for complaining to the authorities about it. :The people coming to Rapture were supposed to be like minded individuals who believed in the value of a hard day's work, integrity, and deplored parasitic acts. Is it really so hard to believe that this immigrant expected something better in this new land? :Unownshipper (talk) 00:07, July 14, 2014 (UTC) : Yeah, even Andrew Ryan initially expected better from the people of Rapture--if you remember the Audio Diary from the original game in which he talks about people hacking the Vending Machines. Rapture was supposed to be a different kind of society; as Ryan put it, "Free enterprise is the foundation upon which our society has been established". Key of Destiny (talk) 02:01, July 14, 2014 (UTC) : Expecting better is different than being delusional that human nature suddenly was made pure. : Also remember that Andrew Ryan said that he expected that it would take time for the people to adjust and lose the influences that existed up in the parasite infested Surface World. He also said that people needed to be given a chance to work things out for themselves, without requiring the heavy hand of regulation The_Market_is_Patient Offer_a_Better_Product Great_Chain_Moves_Slowly. It is actually the excuse given for him (blamed actually) 'doing nothing' as the ADAM problem started (even then, the game makers made sure the side effects were well hidden til it was "too late" else we wouldnt have had the wrecked charnel house of a City to shoot our way through for the game.) : 04:03, July 14, 2014 (UTC) ::Why do you put the underscore (_) in the hyperlink? ::Unownshipper (talk) 05:10, July 14, 2014 (UTC) ::Because I'm cut-n-pasting directly from the pages URL 06:31, July 14, 2014 (UTC) ::- :: ::Well, let's remember that the man built a city at the bottom of the Atlantic Ocean with the belief that he was creating a sanctuary from the parasites above as well as an upcoming atomic war (1940's-1950's, beginning of Cold War paranoia). You can call it what you want, but that sounds pretty delusional to me. After all, Ryan honestly believed that the populace who were invited to Rapture were all of a similar mind to himself. Key of Destiny (talk) 14:29, July 14, 2014 (UTC) ::- ::You might investigate Mechanics Illustrated, Popular Sience, even popular sci-fi at that time talking about practical methods of evading the coming Atomic War. So not as 'delusional' as you might think (ask a few relatives about their state of mind during the Cubam Missile Crisis if you want to gather some first hand knowledge about thoughts of people at that time). ::Rapture could have been an underground city, but the artistry would have been alot more boring. ::The real technology for a reasonable depth (300 feet) WAS actually possible at that time -- though the cityscape (again the artists doing) is a bit rediculous and was made for the views and scenes they wanted to be 'striking'. ::Ryan likely vetted people before he let them into Rapture (thats more than hinted at) - he didnt want people who would be a problem in the future. Even so people are changeable, but at least he would have started with appropriate people from the start. Nothings perfect -- particularly if a (closet?) collectivist like Sofia Lamb is let in later - by the writers to allow the wholes second games storyline. ::Even the whole 'out of work' construction workers (all non-union) excuse, when to build Rapture they wouldnt be the type of people portrayed (manual laborers). Prefab the city and all those workers dont have to come down (probably the majority who worked that task). In the deep sea construction its more technicians and machine operators - people with transfer skills for the inevitable 'ending of construction'. Even deep divers are more technicians/specialists than the equivalent of ditch-diggers or assemblyline workers. The city's building was planned and everyone knew what was to happen and would have been told well ahead of time for them to save money, buy residences, build families, retrain skills. And the workers welcomed to Rapture were likely the ones MORE capable of doing that instead of all just going to the gutter as the plot has it. ::Similar in mind to Ryan? The funny thing is that many of the peiople in Rapture after being victimized by parasites in the world, betrayed by statist/socialist governments, lived through the disruptions of wars and depression, THEY would have been MORE militant about ERADICATING anyone like Atlas and his parasitic poison and terrorism (and Fontaine's treason, and Lamb's delusions) than Ryan was. They came to Rapture to escape those things. :: 05:11, July 15, 2014 (UTC) ::True, they came to Rapture to escape parasites, but to use Fontaine as an example: Sad Saps. As Fontaine puts it, the citizens of Rapture all dreamed of being "captains of industry", but forgot that "someone's gotta scrub the toilets". ::That pretty much opened up a golden opportunity for Fontaine to exploit the system; regardless of whatever promises Rapture was built upon, it was still a city. As such, it had multiple social layers. ::This is also mentioned by Peach Wilkins in Meeting with Fontaine: "Turns out Ryan's chain is made of gold, and ours are the sort with the big iron ball around your ankle. While he's up in Fort Frolic banging fashion models, we're down here yanking guts out of fish." ::Key of Destiny (talk) 15:53, July 15, 2014 (UTC) ::Fontaine often talks in round terms ("all dreamed of being "captains of industry") - he's talking to himself about a 'mark' he is running a major scam against (Fontaine is a sociopath...) The "reality" is that more people came to Rapture just wanting to work without the interference pushed upon them in the Surface world, and many who arent ignorant enough to think that a society could exist with nothing but 'Chiefs'. ::Something the game writers missed is : That if few people want to be 'yanking guts out of fish', then the free market on labor makes that needed skill pay more. That is assuming Fontaine doesnt violently coerse his employes to work for even less (not yet for THAT audio diary) - which should have been picked up by the Newspapers eventually and have Fontaine labeled a tyrant/criminal for it . ::There seems to be an inconsistant reality in the writer's Rapture where all the things the philosophy should have in place there (like peer pressure against those who try to cheat the system) for the city to function are ignored to force the Failtopia. ::Testxyz (talk) 02:23, July 18, 2014 (UTC) ::